Message 4674.48
From: everseeker
To "Sum up" what I've gleaned so far from all this talk:
you can use Shims to lock the speed in low
OR get the little metal clips from DeWalt....(No part # )
Contacts: 1-800-4-DeWalt - Service Center Locator
1-888-678-7278 - Parts Store
and from SCT I have this:
Motor Mounts: Get em from SCT, but the window for asking is almost shut...
Recommended Batteries: three Hawker Odyssey 625's in series were used on Mauler 5150
Recommended controller ? RDFR36 or better.
Am I missing anything?
From: Supreme Commander Charles L. Tilford, PE (CTILFORD)
First, I'm starting a new thread because "Reply" on the existing thread just flips me into the Delphi
Forums splash page. I went to Help, sent an e-mail, and they said they're having database problems
that may take a couple of days to fix.
To review: Mauler 5150 uses one DeWalt 24V hammmerdrill model DW6006 motor, gearbox, and spindle
on each wheel. Final drive is through a chain: 10 tooth on the spindle, 16 tooth on the wheel. It's set up
with 36 volt input through a Vantec RDFR33. I can measure current by measuring voltage drop across a
shunt resistor. 1 mV = 10 amps. Used a Fluke digital meter.
We ran it in the driveway, without the weapon. Total draw (two motors) was 50 amps during vigorous
acceleration, 10 amps to hold a steady moderate speed, and 90 amps pushing against a wall, wheels
spinning. So the peak per-motor amp draw was 45 amps. The same power output at 24 volts would take
66 amps. This would shortly melt the brush blocks.
Bosch 750 weapon motors: Mauler has two, driving the same chain. The motors have 11 tooth
sprockets; the main shaft has a 70 tooth sprocket. Published stall current at 24V is 180 amps. At 36V,
stall current is 180 x 1.5, or 270. For two motors, that's 540 amps. I fired it up and measured 52 mV, or
520 amps. Probably the batteries (three Hawker Odyssey 625's in series) droop a bit under 36 volts, but
that's still very good correlation between the calculated and measured values.
Supreme Commander Tilford, for South Bay RoboWarriors/Mauler 5150
From: Supreme Commander Charles L. Tilford, PE (CTILFORD)
We used these DeWalt 24V hammer drill motors, gearboxes, and spindle assemblies in Mauler 5150. The spindle
assembly is the part that goes into the gearbox on one end, has a bearing pressed on, and has a 1/2-20 (fine)
thread for attaching the chuck. The spindle is also bored for 1/4-28 left hand thread for retaining the chuck. We
made an aluminum motor mount, and support for the spindle. To output, we used a 3/8" ID sprocket for #35 chain,
tapped it for the 1/2-20 thread, and retained it with a LH thread 1/4-20 x 5/8 socket head cap screw with a washer.
We ran them in low gear range through a Vantec RDFR33, at 36 volts. Final drive was 10 tooth on spindle, 16 tooth
on the 6" wheel. They had a good driving feel--combination of acceleration and top end. But we did melt a plastic
brush block on one, and had to replace it. Then we switched to 24 volts and ran without problems.
After the competition, Gen'l Knollenberg wanted to try them in high gear. They ran fast, but after 10 minutes or so
we smoked the brush blocks again. We think we can make a replacement aluminum brush block, and add a tiny
cooling fan in the brush area. The windings seem to be fine.
As for current draw: I don't know yet, but I will. I put a calibrated resistor in the power circuit, and when I fire it
back up, I'll measure and post the current draw (1 mV drop across the resistor for each 10 amps through it). You
could estimate it by using the speed and torque to calculate mechanical power, and assume they're 60% efficient to
get electrical power. Electrical power / volts = amps.
450 rev/min x 1/60 min/sec x 2 pi radians/revolution = 46 radians/sec
Torque = 550 in-lb = 46 ft-lb
Power = torque x angular velocity = 46 rad/sec x 46 ft-lb = 1116 ft-lb/sec
1 HP = 550 ft-lb/sec, so that's a bit over 2 HP. That would take about 3.5 electrical HP input, or 3.5 x 746 watts/HP
= 2600 watts.
Amps = power/volts, or 2600/24 = 108 amps. For two motors doing this, that's 216 amps. That's a lot, and I'm not
sure I believe it.
Before we decided to use this on Mauler, we mounted a test motor in a wooden mount on a bench vise, and
mounted a rubber surfaced wheel on the spindle. We turned it on at 24 volts, and tried to stop it. We pressed two
wood blocks together as hard as we could, but it didn't stall--just ground rubber off the tire until the jumper on the
battery melted. So maybe the 100 amps under hard load is correct. ANYWAY, I'll measure and post.
This isn't for everyone. With Mauler 5150, we wanted more batteries (three Hawker Odyssey 625's are 40 pounds)
and to go faster. Obviously, our main defense is our offense; if our spinner goes dead, we're hosed. I think that
with some tweaking, they'll do well for us.
We came up with a pretty good mounting system for this. Our machinist is interested in making and selling
more...let me know if anyone is interested. Price would depend on volume.
Great show in Vegas! I didn't get to hang out and BS with everyone I wanted to, since I was both busy on Mauler,
and fried from all-nighters the week before.
Supreme Commander Tilford, for South Bay RoboWarriors/Mauler 5150
From:
BROTEK
Thanks Ken, that was the key. I have this same motor (389010-00). But when I asked Dewalt to send me the parts
list for the Dewalt 24V drill (not knowing that there was a Hammerdrill and a Rotary Hammer) they sent me the
DW004K list, which is the Rotary Hammer.
Big mistake because the transmissions for these have no part number and you have to purchase every single part
seperately and assemble yourself. This has been confirmed with GTR (1-877-GTR-TOOL), and 2 sources at Dewalt
(1-800-4-dewalt - customer service and 1-888-678-7278 - Dewalt parts store, yes you can buy parts direct from
Dewalt)
Looking at the parts list there is at least 40-50 parts to do this (including all of the spacers, washers, springs,
bearings, etc, etc..)
So, you are my savior in making me realize that the Hammerdrill (DW006K) parts list is the version that contains
the desired combo of:
389010-00 motor pack: $38.25
Thanks again,
Jim
From:
Supreme Commander Charles L. Tilford, PE (CTILFORD)
The spindle assembly gives you the output shaft and bearing. The shifter lets you easily lock the gearbox in low
range. I don't have these numbers, but those are the names DeWalt will recognize.
Weight of the mounted assembly we made (baseplate, motor, gearbox, spindle, sprocket, motor cradle, front
bearing support) is six pounds. It has a fair bit of metal around the motor, which not only supports it, but acts as a
heat-sink. It could be made lighter by maybe 0.5 lb by drilling it out--we were going to do this if we were over limit,
but we ended up just over 200 lb.
Supreme Commander Tilford, for South Bay RoboWarriors/Mauler 5150
From:
KENBOUCHER
Warning!
As I've found out (and mention above), you'll need one more part. (Spindle assembly - 390087-00 $9.25). Mine
are scheduled to arrive around next Wed or Thursday. I'll post more about them when I get them.
________________________________
From:
BROTEK
Another engineer told me that these motors can handle 25 amps continuous and max out at 50 amps easily.
This is why I was surprised to see Commander Tilfords calculations and hope that someone can verify these
numbers. I'm a newbie and rely heavily on this board for tech support, so hurry up Tilford!!
Hope my research helps.
From:
Supreme Commander Charles L. Tilford, PE (CTILFORD)
First, I'm starting a new thread because "Reply" on the existing thread just flips me into the Delphi Forums splash
page. I went to Help, sent an e-mail, and they said they're having database problems that may take a couple of
days to fix.
To review: Mauler 5150 uses one DeWalt 24V hammmerdrill model DW6006 motor, gearbox, and spindle on each
wheel. Final drive is through a chain: 10 tooth on the spindle, 16 tooth on the wheel. It's set up with 36 volt input
through a Vantec RDFR33. I can measure current by measuring voltage drop across a shunt resistor. 1 mV = 10
amps. Used a Fluke digital meter.
We ran it in the driveway, without the weapon. Total draw (two motors) was 50 amps during vigorous acceleration,
10 amps to hold a steady moderate speed, and 90 amps pushing against a wall, wheels spinning. So the peak
per-motor amp draw was 45 amps. The same power output at 24 volts would take 66 amps. This would shortly
melt the brush blocks.
Bosch 750 weapon motors: Mauler has two, driving the same chain. The motors have 11 tooth sprockets; the main
shaft has a 70 tooth sprocket. Published stall current at 24V is 180 amps. At 36V, stall current is 180 x 1.5, or 270.
For two motors, that's 540 amps. I fired it up and measured 52 mV, or 520 amps. Probably the batteries (three
Hawker Odyssey 625's in series) droop a bit under 36 volts, but that's still very good correlation between the
calculated and measured values.
Supreme Commander Tilford, for South Bay RoboWarriors/Mauler 5150
From:
VEGASLOCAL
Go here,
http://www.dewalt.com/us/service/center_finder.asp
Find the service center near you. Order the parts on the phone, listed at the beginning of this thread. Don't forget
the spindles. (Search the forum for the words "Dewalt" and "Spindle" for the part number.
Not everything is sold on the web.
"BattleBots -- All the violence, with none of the guilt!"
From:
Supreme Commander Charles L. Tilford, PE (CTILFORD)
www.gtr.com will get you to General Tool and Repair.
They sell this stuff on the web. You do need to know the part
numbers posted nearby.
Supreme Commander Tilford, for South Bay RoboWarriors/Mauler 5150
From:
WYTEBOY
The dewalt drill packs and transmitions seem to be the hot item currently. here are the parts
numbers for the items you'll need.
Call 1-888-678-7278, Its the parts and service number. Credit card orders accepted. Total package
for mine was about $95 for those three items.
The spindle is the threaded piece the drill chuck connects to. I think Mauler is using a chain sprocket
gear the threads on and locks down with a washer and nut backed into it. Sounds like if your not
using the trans. You might look at doing the sprocket and nut setup.
SC posted about this once before, I'm not sure where but do a search under dewalt drills and you
may find it.
One other item you might need is the shifter, it locks the trans into what ever gear you want it in. I
didn't order any when I placed my order, I didn't have the part number at the time. I also read
someone made thier own so I didn't really think these were priority one. I really needed these for
testing and sizing for room.
I hope this helps.
To: SKILLEDJOHN unread
10:16 pm
389010-00 motor pack: $38.25
388974-00 transmission: $36.20
total per combo: $74.90
390087-00 Spindle assembly: $9.25
Manuals for the DW006K HammerDrill: Free
At 36Volts, Low Speed:
50 A accelerating
10 A cruise
90 A near-stall (Pushing on a wall)
To: ALL
Nov-23 11:36 pm
To: AUSTIN9000
Nov-21 9:49 pm
Edited 11/21/2000 10:24:26 PM ET by CTILFORD
To:
KENBOUCHER
Nov-22 12:44 pm
388974-00 transmission: $36.20
To:
BROTEK
Nov-22 12:57 pm
To:
BROTEK
Nov-22 1:01 pm
If you're new, please read this
-o=o'-+-Ken Boucher bons@home.com
To:
KENBOUCHER
Nov-22 9:02 pm
p>
I did manage to get some data on these little jewels. I talked to several engineers at Dewalt and all were very
apprehensive about giving out data as it is proprietary info. Customer Service does not have this info, but I just
kept digging and digging and this is what I found:
24V Motorpack (from a Dewalt engineer):
Max Watts Out: approx 470 Watts
Current @ MWO: approx 19 amps
No-Load Speed: approx 21000 rpm
No-load Current: approx 4.6 amps
Max Efficiency: approx 75%
Thermal Runaway: 34 amps
Jim Brock
To:
ALL
Nov-23 11:36 pm
To:
LEE8612
Dec-17 9:12 pm
_________________________
- Paul Burton, figwin@lvcm.com
To:
VEGASLOCAL
Dec-17 9:24 pm
To:
Lee (LEE8612)
11:34 am
Motor pack: 389010-00 $38
Transmition: 388974-00 $36
Spindle: 390087-00 $9.25